Rebecca Liu Brennan 0:00
Music. Hello friends. I'm Amanda Barr and I'm Rebecca Lew Brennan, and welcome to Dance principles united the podcast together.
Amanda Barr 0:10
We are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio
Rebecca Liu Brennan 0:14
Join us as we talk everything from marketing, systems, studio culture, motherhood, life and everything in between. This
Amanda Barr 0:22
is the dance principles united. Podcast, Hi friends and welcome to the dance principles united. Podcast, I am joined by the lovely Beck. How are you? My friend? I'm very good.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 0:36
We just had Easter weekend, which was lovely. Bit of a break. Do you have a bit of a
Amanda Barr 0:41
break? I had a bit of a break. It was needed. Had a couple of days off. Entertained so many family. You know what it's like? And he got so many different family. Had, you know, I had Easter Saturday dinner, Easter Sunday brunch, then Easter Sunday dinner, all at my house with family, but it was nice. What
Rebecca Liu Brennan 0:58
about you? I did not have any children or any family things. Actually went away for two days. It was amazing,
Amanda Barr 1:07
lovely, lovely. And then I saw you had the pause Easter picnic. It's like an annual event at your studio, right? We
Rebecca Liu Brennan 1:13
did, we did. It was pretty epic. At the river. It was beautiful day for it, actually, so, but yeah, had that event. Everyone loved it. Lots on our socials about it. So it was great,
Amanda Barr 1:23
great. You gotta love that. Well, today we are jumping into talking about the term two blues, because we know that a lot of people feel that, you know, depending what state you're in, we're all kind of starting back for term two. And I know that quite often, especially after a long weekend, you jump into your email, you know, you check and you're like, Oh, I've got quite a few drops. We've got quite a few students who have just dropped out for no reason. And it sucks, right?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 1:52
It does suck. I mean, the first thing I want to say about this is it's, it happens to everyone absolutely, you know, we're having drops at the moment, at pause. It's just a thing that happens at the end of term. And I think everyone needs to realize that, because people do take it so much to heart, don't they Amanda like they get so upset by it, but kids do change their mind, and they do want to do different things. And that's just a part of a business owner's life. I think, is that circle of what happens absolutely,
Amanda Barr 2:21
and I think, you know, we've talked before about, you know, there's a different mentality these days, right? When we were kids, you know, we were dancers. Dance was our life. That was my sport. That's what I did. That was, you know, my whole being. But now, you know, most kids do so many different activities, and it's, you know, they're not like, solely one, you know, obviously there are the high level comp kids, but a lot of kids just like, they just like to try lots of things, right? And that's not such a bad thing. It's just how things are now. And I think we could sit here and complain and whinge that people aren't committed like they used to be in the old days, or we just take it as it is, right? Yeah,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 3:02
exactly. And I mean, and then I also question, as you're saying that, were we just the committed ones who were obsessed with dance? Maybe there was that, you know, maybe there still was that turn around with a lot of kids, because I know, you know, babies obviously obsessed with dance and all the things, but my other kids are still trying lots of different activities and aren't really that focused on one single thing. So absolutely, maybe we were the babies of the world who were completely committed and obsessed. But yeah, kids do tend to try more stuff.
Amanda Barr 3:35
Absolutely, absolutely. And no matter which way you look at it, right, that means there's more kids coming into our studio. Yes, it means there's more leaving, but there's more kids coming into our studio as well. And I think that's really, really important. So if you are feeling the term two blues, we want to chat about a few, a few ideas to try and work through it. I guess today, I always found my biggest drops were term one to term two of the year always. And I know, you know, a lot of other studios say their biggest drops after, like, the mid year concert, but for me, it was always at the end of term one that was always my biggest drop. And I think for me, I had a lot of kids that would try dance, and they'd go, Oh, we're going to commit to it for a term and then change their mind. I don't know, what about you?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 4:21
Yeah, I think it's our biggest drop time as well. I think a lot of kids are trying new things. I also think, you know, it starts to get a bit cold. Parents get a bit lazier. That sort of thing happens as well.
Amanda Barr 4:35
Absolutely no one loves driving out at eight o'clock on a freezing cold night. I get it exactly.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 4:40
I get it too. I totally get
Amanda Barr 4:44
it too. That's exactly
Rebecca Liu Brennan 4:46
what I was going to say. Winter sports as well. And, yeah, just kids sometimes get over stuff as well, absolutely.
Amanda Barr 4:56
And that's okay. It's just one of those things. I think winter. Sports, you know, I really think the take off of girls soccer has a lot to answer for, like, you know, I think it's that, that thing that, what are they called the Matildas, have done so well. I can't even remember my kids are wearing the shirts and whatever, but they've all done so well that so many girls want to play soccer now that that just seems to be, I don't know if that's in just in my area. Is that the same for you? Yes,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 5:24
and League, rugby league is ass, yes, the girls league tag and
Amanda Barr 5:28
stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Whereas we used to only compete with netball, and now we're competing with netball and league tag and soccer, as well as swimming, gymnastics, music lessons, all the other things. But yeah, I I agree with what you're saying, that it's, it is just one of those things. And so if you're experiencing those drops, what are some, what are some things we can do about them? Beck, well,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 5:53
I thought we could chat about two things here. The first one is, like, retention tips, because I think, you know, trying to put the hard yards in. In term one, to make it them stay is really, really important. So, you know, giving them stuff to look forward to. Like, I know we talk a lot about mid year concert, but I was saying to some of our clients the other day, Amanda, making them wait the whole year for the concert. That's a long time. And I kind of absolutely, I know we spoke about this in the last podcast, but it's like Phoenix, never playing a game of soccer until the very end of the year, but doing the training every single week, so just giving them some sort of performance or some sort of opportunity to come along and, you know, have that excitement of this is what we're working towards. I think that's really, really important thoughts on that, absolutely,
Amanda Barr 6:43
I think so. And, you know, even if they haven't had a chance by the end of term, one to, you know, to perform or do something like that, at least knowing that it's coming and building up to it, rather than it's like, oh, you know, four weeks before the mid year concert, oh, we're having a mid year concert. Is it just marketing it earlier on, and so everyone knows that's what they're looking forward to, because sometimes it's actually about the marketing of it rather than the actual being part of it.
Speaker 1 7:12
Yes, also like training your staff on that mid year concert routine and giving everyone something very special to do in it, so that you're like, well, that's your special part where you're going to get to show what you do. You know, I think that can be a big issue as well, that kids just don't feel valued necessarily in there, or don't feel like they're doing anything out of the ordinary or special, and so don't want to hold on to it.
Amanda Barr 7:34
Yeah, that's that's interesting, right? And I think that's so, so important. So I think no matter what it is, whether it's a mid year concert, whether it's a demonstration day, whether it's being chanced to be part of a community performance, or whether it's just parent viewing week, you know, really marketing it as something super special and super exciting for not just the students, but for their parents as well, I think is a really Important part of it. Yeah,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 7:59
absolutely. And educating those parents on how the kids are going, what they're doing. I know we talk about this a lot, but it's so important. If they feel like their kids are just going there, doing a bit of a dance class and going home, of course, they don't value it. But if you've given them, you know, this week, this term, we're really working towards our, I don't know, back walkover for Sally. And this is how far she's come, and this is what she's achieving. And they're seeing Sally practice at home, and they're seeing her want to achieve those things. They're going to be more committed than if Sally just comes home, sits on the couch, doesn't really do today, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think edge that education is is missing in a lot of children's activities. And yes, you know, we talk about it all the time, but when they do play sport, you're much more a part of it than if they're doing that dance class behind closed walls,
Amanda Barr 8:50
absolutely. And you know, even in terms of like swimming lessons, for example, they have to tick off certain skills or criteria to move up. And I know that's not how dance always works. Sometimes it is, depending on, like a syllabus, for example. But you know, it could just be a matter of you communicating that really clearly through something like band app, you know, or phone calls with the parents. You know, it doesn't matter how it's communicated, as long as it's super clear that there are outcomes they're working towards, and this is what we're doing each week to progress towards those outcomes, right?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 9:28
Yes, it's very interesting. I've just started Phoenix back in swimming, and he's all about getting that sticker each week, or trying to achieve the sticker. And I like that. I know what he needs to achieve to go up to the next level. So, you know, I can watch him and go, Okay, he didn't get his dive today, or whatever it was. I can see why he's not progressing. And that's very clear to me, whereas I feel like in the dance studio, that's not very clear at all, actually,
Amanda Barr 9:58
yes. And you're wondering, like, why? Is my child not getting better? What's happening next? What are they even learning today? I don't even know what they're doing. So I think any sort of education is so, so important, and doing those things prior to term will definitely help with that term to blues. But okay, so it is, let's be honest. We should, probably should have started that six weeks ago. If someone's listening back and they're like, shit, haven't done that. What can I do now about all these drops? What would be number you get the emails, you look at them and you're like, oh, shit, what would be your number one thing you do? BEC, well,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 10:34
I mean, the first thing I do is ask why people are leaving, because hopefully they're going to be honest with you, and that,
Speaker 2 10:41
pick up the phone. Don't be scared. Yes, pick up the phone. Ask
Rebecca Liu Brennan 10:45
them why, and that could give you a clear, clearer path as to what's happening. I know that as a team, we always look back on those things and go, Okay, you know, like we've had a parent come to us before and say, Oh, my child hasn't improved at all this year, and like, in our heads, we're like, of course, they've improved. That's ridiculous. So instead of blaming the parent though, we then go back as a team and go, Okay, clearly we're not showing the improvement. So how can we as a team show the improvement Exactly? Or maybe the feedback is or, you know, my child just doesn't feel like they've got any friends in the class. That's another one that we hear a lot, right? So then you've gotta self reflect as a team and go, Okay, are we trying to create events that these kids can be friends with and the parents can become friends with? Are we trying in class to make kids interact with each other? Maybe not. Maybe we need to work on that so that feedback is so important, right? Amanda, like, just we are quiet. And, you know, I'm not answering the emails myself in the studio anymore, but I certainly am looking at them, and I like that my team's like, okay, so sorry to hear leaving. Can we read, can we reach out and ask why? You know, pick up the phone and talk to them like you said, Amanda, just finding that out is very important. We my team, has to check in every single student who leaves. We have a spreadsheet of every single reason why, because I want to know why, and
Amanda Barr 12:10
you want to, like, look for patterns, for example, right? I think that's a big thing, is looking for those patterns, because a lot of the time there's not, as we said, Kids just want to try sport and all their they're moving, or, you know, soccer starting, or mum that can't be bothered. But sometimes there are patterns as well. And so sometimes you do need to look at that. Is it people are dropping from that Tuesday ballet class, you know? Is it because it's too late and you shouldn't have put it on that late? Is it because the teacher isn't engaging enough? Is there? You know? What is it? So I do think that's important. Hey, I know a lot of people are like, Okay, you're saying to me, just pick up the phone and call them. But what the fuck do I actually say? How do I have that conversation? Like, have you got any tips for that, for how to actually practically have that conversation?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 12:58
Yeah, I think one try not to avoid the conflict of it, because that's the biggest thing, is that we're scared that they're going to say something that's going to hurt our feelings. So yes, that's, that's the biggest thing. You need to take it all, take your heart away from it. Yeah, absolutely. Two, just literally say, Oh, I'm so sad that, you know, little Ellie's not coming back. Can I ask? Why is something gone wrong in class? We just always love feedback at pause to find out exactly what's going on. And, you know, just to make sure that we, if there's something we need to improve on, we'd love to improve on it.
Amanda Barr 13:32
I love that. And I think the big thing after that is like, let them talk. Don't be defensive. No. Don't be like, Oh, but you know you're saying she doesn't have friends, but I know she's got like, you know, obviously you can discuss those things, but don't be defensive about it, and let them say their piece. I think sometimes people you know are too quick to talk over the top and not actually listen to what their clients are saying. Yes,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 13:56
absolutely. And at the end of the day, they've left for a reason, and you've got to go, Okay, I need to self reflect on that. That's got to go into it with that self reflective, or business self reflective. It's not you as a person, it's your business, but you've got to go into it. And I know we all give our heart and soul to our business, and I get that, but there's still, everyone does things wrong, you know, and everyone needs to self reflect all the time on their business and where it's going wrong, and what could have we've done better. And every event, everything we do at pause, we always go, what could we have done better? Every
Amanda Barr 14:31
time, absolutely. And so when you're on this conversation, you know, I do think it's important to listen to what they're saying and also just try and, you know, have a discussion about them, perhaps trying a different style, or anything like that. I think that sometimes people just go, Oh, they're done. Then why bother calling them? They've told me they're leaving. But sometimes, like, you can actually have those conversations, and parents don't actually know that, you know, okay, she's finding dance in inverted commas. Slow, but you're like, well, she's in a ballet class. Maybe the hip hop would be better. Some parents just don't even think about that, right? Absolutely.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 15:06
And we've, we've turned so many students around with that exact conversations of finding out why they're not happy, what they don't like about it, and then going, Oh, try this instead. So we've, we've converted a lot of them in in that sense. And those of you who aren't doing this, imagine how many you're not converting because you're too scared to pick up the phone and find out the harsh realities of you know, it is what it is. I think, I think when I learnt to take more of the emotion out of the business, it became a lot easier,
Amanda Barr 15:38
yeah, to have those conversations. Yeah, so, so important. So I think number one, call them, try and convert them, but if not, listen and take on the feedback. But our other big thing that we just want to remind you is, you know, students come and go, but the most important part of the come and go is the come part of it, right? Because it is so, so important that we're constantly attracting new students. That is such an important part of that. And so many studios are like, Oh, we we're dropping. Like, throughout the year, we keep dropping. We keep dropping. Don't do that. Be attracting new students, and actually be getting new clients into a place and if not, take over the ones that you've currently lost.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 16:19
Yes, and your if you have a team, your team needs to be on top of that. If it's you, you need to be on top of that. The biggest thing you need to know is your numbers. You know, how many kids are in your studio? How many class placements Do you have? How many dropped last term? How many did you gain last term? Amanda, interesting. I was telling and I know I'm a big wheel, and I know I'm spending a lot of marketing. We gained 151 students last term. That's a lot of students
Amanda Barr 16:49
since, since the term started. Right,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 16:51
correct, correct. Mm, so Well, we put a lot of time, effort, money into marketing, but we have a similar goal now this term, just because it's term two doesn't mean that we don't want to gain that many students again. So the team is very on top of knowing, you know, and yes, we'll drop some students too, obviously, yeah. But the team is very on top, and I'm very on top of knowing exactly how many kids we have every single week in the upping, upping, upping, and what kind of marketing strategies we can put together this term. I don't know if you noticed over Easter. I don't know if you're into online shopping or anything Amanda, but never. Not me. How many companies had massive deals going over the Easter long weekend. I was all about it, and, you know, flicking through so many different things because they knew that more people were on their phones. And it's interesting, like people right now, it's the week before New South Wales school goes back, they are now going to be looking for, they've probably dropped out of something else that they weren't enjoying, and are now looking for a different activity for their child absolutely regard that
Amanda Barr 18:03
I booked swimming lessons this morning. I didn't tell you that 6am this morning, I was sitting on my phone and I booked into swimming lessons, right? Because I was starting to think, you know, it's obviously we're only halfway through our school holidays. But I was like, Oh, cool. I gotta get sorted for next term. In my head was where I was at. So people are still doing that. So I think it's really important that you're investing in your growth, investing in your marketing, and don't get out of that headset headspace. I guess of you know, oh, we're not going to get new students because it's term two. You know, it's really hard to get new students at term two, it is definitely not. So make sure that you are attracting them. Nathan did an awesome call on Facebook ads in tribe last week, and how to set them up and how to do it well, and a whole heap of things. So if you need any help, please reach out. We'd love to help you through that, because it is such a you know, there's lots of ways to market, of course, but nothing works better for most dance studios at the moment than Facebook and Instagram ads.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 19:04
Also, if you're listening to this and going, Oh, because I hear this all the time, Amanda, and I know you do too. Oh, I tried Facebook ads, but they didn't work. It's, it's just because you haven't set them up properly and you don't understand how to do it. Nathan is amazing at teaching everyone that, like, he's incredible, yes, but they, you know, billion dollar companies are not investing as much as what they are in social media. If it didn't work, okay? And those face it does work. It works like it works. So it's, it's actually just that you need to change the way you're doing it, which we love seeing incredible results from our studio owners doing that. I know nice setting up some new SGC members over the next couple of days with their Facebook ads and helping them with that. And we know they're going to get crazy results when it's done properly in the right way. And all of you can learn how to do that and and get into it. It's amazing. I. Absolutely
Amanda Barr 20:00
so, so good anyway. We hope you got some tips today on, you know, just trying to overcome, I think sometimes it's just the headspace and the mindset of losing those students, because it does suck to open those emails. Sorry. Oh, we're gonna go talking. It does suck, like,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 20:18
and even for my team, you know, I can see them going oh, and like, checking in with the numbers. And, you know, the numbers have gone down this week because, like you said, over Easter weekend, and that's disappointing for them. But when I think, when I called them this morning, my two team members that are on top of that, I was like, right back on it. You know, we've got some trials coming in. It's all going to be okay. We just need to step it up again. That's what happens. So that's what I want to say to you guys like Amanda said, get out of the head space. Just pick yourself up and go, Okay. Well, one, it obviously happens to everyone, because we're telling you that, you know, if it happens to me, it happens to all of us. And two, let's just get back on the train of okay, how are we going to interact attract some new students this week? What are we going to do for that? Absolutely,
Amanda Barr 21:06
absolutely. I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. If we can help any way for you to attract more students into your studio, we'd love to help you. Please reach out to us. We are here anyway. I hope you all have an awesome week. Thanks so much for listening, guys,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 21:20
thanks, friends. Bye. We hope you enjoyed
Amanda Barr 21:23
this episode of the dance principles United podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners, go to the link in the show notes right now to get two weeks free in dance principles United tribe. We would love to see you there. You
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